Curse

HawkofStorms · Jun 19, 2007, 10:26 PM // 22:26

Technically you can run 2 copies at once (there is a guide on the technical forums of this very site). Don't ask me how, I'm no programer.

And @ the guy who said the supply of anything hasn't gone up... you clearly haven't been playing the game for that long. A 15^50 anything (as long as it wasn't a crafter skin) used to sell for 100k easily. The Yakslapper used to sell for over 120k. Stuff used to be WAY rarer and more valuable. NF has killed the rarity of items. If you don't believe me, talk to anybody who remembers the "good old days."

Bryant Again · Jun 19, 2007, 10:45 PM // 22:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by HawkofStorms

And @ the guy who said the supply of anything hasn't gone up... you clearly haven't been playing the game for that long. A 15^50 anything (as long as it wasn't a crafter skin) used to sell for 100k easily. The Yakslapper used to sell for over 120k. Stuff used to be WAY rarer and more valuable. NF has killed the rarity of items. If you don't believe me, talk to anybody who remembers the "good old days."

Sold a 15>50 Req. 9 Fellblade for 4k the other day. I've seen the guy trying to sell it for 100k +10 ectos 4 days in a row now.

*Sigh*...I miss them days.

MSecorsky · Jun 19, 2007, 11:00 PM // 23:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by HawkofStorms

And @ the guy who said the supply of anything hasn't gone up... you clearly haven't been playing the game for that long. A 15^50 anything (as long as it wasn't a crafter skin) used to sell for 100k easily. The Yakslapper used to sell for over 120k. Stuff used to be WAY rarer and more valuable. NF has killed the rarity of items. If you don't believe me, talk to anybody who remembers the "good old days."

How exactly is this a bad thing? Players can get things they never could afford before. Much better for the community as a whole.

youngstar · Jun 20, 2007, 12:14 AM // 00:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by HawkofStorms

Technically you can run 2 copies at once (there is a guide on the technical forums of this very site). Don't ask me how, I'm no programer.

And @ the guy who said the supply of anything hasn't gone up... you clearly haven't been playing the game for that long. A 15^50 anything (as long as it wasn't a crafter skin) used to sell for 100k easily. The Yakslapper used to sell for over 120k. Stuff used to be WAY rarer and more valuable. NF has killed the rarity of items. If you don't believe me, talk to anybody who remembers the "good old days."

I was saying that after the update the supply of things has gone down.

Dr Strangelove · Jun 20, 2007, 12:36 AM // 00:36

You fail at basic economics.

Quotes aren't verbatim, just the general arguements

"Loot scaling doesn't hurt bots, since they just make more bots"

If it was possible to create infinite bots, it would have already been done to drive down operating costs. Bots require human overseers, stolen accounts, computer processing time, etc. etc.

"I can't make as much on trading, based on guru prices"

Supply of all items has increased, thanks to everyone playing the game normally and keeping their items for selling. However, the flood of new players who need such things has dropped. When supply increases and demand decreases, prices go down. Also, guru prices haven't been updated in a LONG time. I sell almost everything in the 1-10k range now, with rarer items going up to 20kish.

"Botting companies don't care about the nerf, they have plenty of money saved up anyway."

If this was true, they don't even need bots anymore. Since I still see bots ingame, I'm pretty sure this is false.

"There's no reason to play the game without farming"

You can still farm, but you have to rely more on selling drops and materials. Have you gotten every title in the game? Beat the game on hard mode? Won first place in the GWWC? I'm pretty sure there's other stuff in the game than just the main missions and farming.

"Chest running makes money too, nerf that"

Yes, but chest running makes money by selling good stuff to other players. Since rare drops are exempt from loot scaling, you can still make money this way.

"New players are screwed since they can't make money"

On the contrary, gold sinks do exist in this game. If you haven't noticed, prices have been dropping (you whined about this when you said you couldn't sell things at the old prices). As a result, players are less likely to even have to farm at all, and are able to buy basic equipment with whatever cash they have laying around.

"More people will bot now"

No, the deterrent to botting was not how much money you wanted. The deterrent to botting is that you must first have the technological know-how to make a bot army, and second, that you be willing to risk your account being banned. Most people aren't. If you asked any player whether they wanted instant money, I'm pretty sure everyone would say yes.

"The companies haven't gone out of business, so the change has failed"

No, but they have had to increase prices. As prices increase, less people are willing to buy money, for the same reason that more people are willing to buy honda civics than are willing to buy lamborginis.

GloryFox · Jun 20, 2007, 12:48 AM // 00:48

I might be wrong but since the Loot scale nerf, Ive had NO I repeat NO problems buying anything in the game including SUP Runes of any kind.

SO it seems to me my money is worth more now than it what it was before.

For example I can go to Kamadan find a nice weapon skin and buy it cheap. Add mods on it cheap.. buy lessor vigors for all of my HERO's cheap.

Whats the issue here?

cellardweller · Jun 20, 2007, 01:41 AM // 01:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by MSecorsky

How exactly is this a bad thing? Players can get things they never could afford before. Much better for the community as a whole.

Because all the useless rubbish like weapons skins went down in price, but the things that people actually need like skills are suddenly a whole lot more expensive.

korcan · Jun 20, 2007, 02:12 AM // 02:12

if youre playing gw to collect "rare" items, youre probably playing the wrong game.

with the introduction of inscribable weapons, the only real "rare" items that collectors covet now are the asian minis. unfortunately, those minis cant be farmed. the days of 100k+1750ectos items are long gone. my clientele list of high-end buyers has gone by the way side as well.

anet wants to keep the majority happy [ie. casual gamers] and i think that theyve succeeded in that. you can now buy almost any skin with decent stats in the game for under 50k.

if loot scaling has caused major deflation of the economy, i dont understand why items with fixed prices [ie. armor, weaponsmith items, skill prices, etc.] have stayed the same. shouldnt the prices on those items be dropped as well?

Tactical-Dillusions · Jun 20, 2007, 02:37 AM // 02:37

Put a rare and random Mursaat monk boss outside Altrumm and Bergan.

Give monsters in known "botspots" better skills (can i choose some?).

Place monster spawn close to the door so that bots get spiked before they have chance to throw up a protective spirit.

Put a nice fat Oakheart in the area with a Natures Renewal. Those trees do like them don't they?

Investigate everyone with 800k+ on their account.

Remove the 55 icon.

Reduce the health deduction on superior and major runes.

Delete all gold and items from the account of anyone doing 100 solo runs in a day.

Ban anyone who hasn't logged off for 48 hours.

Investigate people exchanging massive sums of gold on a regular basis.

Change the currency in Guild Wars and do a gold sweep.

Ban player to player trading and dropping of items/gold.

Taxes! The more money you have, the more you pay. Make it undesireable to be wealthy!

Pay a fee for traveling alone.

Pay a fee of gold when you travel alone and make it climb with each new instance.

As previously mentioned, remove the signposts in towns/outposts and replace with signs created from the rocks etc that can't be clicked on. Adds realism too.

Randomise spawns. A program can't follow something that can't be followed.

Place new creatures in botspots - Fallen Heroes with Echo+Debilitating shot.

Dummy spirits that take no damage but still attack. Using /kneel will call down the gods to remove the incarnation. A bot would carry on attacking it and die.

Some of those above sound extreme and probably very likely improbable that they might probably not be doable maybe.
There are so many things that CAN be done but it makes me sad that Anet chose a method that harms genuine players who do like killing stuff alone but who must now forfeit that sense of adventure and accomplishment.

Also, don't buy Unidentified golds from people with gibberish names. 99% of them are gold farmers who will recycle that gold into Yen and further hurt this game.
Find yourself a trade partner who you can trust and do regular deals with.

My vote - get rid of loot scaling because i've never seen this many bots before.
Make it harder for the genuine players and they may seek other ways to get wealth.

Mylon · Jun 20, 2007, 02:40 AM // 02:40

I have played this game for 19 months and the only time I ever farmed was the Urgoz spirit farm build, just to see if it was as easy as I had heard (and it was!). I've made plenty of money just playing through the game. Granted, I don't have 15k armor, but I do have lucky 2 (which costs what, 160k?), and 2 skill hunter titles, so I'm not starving for cash. I'm still not farming and I could care less to engage in such a boring activity.

On the other side of the coin, since selling golds and greens for 3k-5k is hardly worth the effort, people would rather just farm and merch more golds than try and sell loot to other players, which is a bit counter-intuitive to the idea of using loot scaling to force players to rely on trading with other players to make money.

manitoba1073 · Jun 20, 2007, 04:17 AM // 04:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tactical-Dillusions

Put a rare and random Mursaat monk boss outside Altrumm and Bergan.

Give monsters in known "botspots" better skills (can i choose some?).

Place monster spawn close to the door so that bots get spiked before they have chance to throw up a protective spirit.

Put a nice fat Oakheart in the area with a Natures Renewal. Those trees do like them don't they?

Investigate everyone with 800k+ on their account.

Remove the 55 icon.

Reduce the health deduction on superior and major runes.

Delete all gold and items from the account of anyone doing 100 solo runs in a day.

Ban anyone who hasn't logged off for 48 hours.

Investigate people exchanging massive sums of gold on a regular basis.

Change the currency in Guild Wars and do a gold sweep.

Ban player to player trading and dropping of items/gold.

Taxes! The more money you have, the more you pay. Make it undesireable to be wealthy!

Pay a fee for traveling alone.

Pay a fee of gold when you travel alone and make it climb with each new instance.

As previously mentioned, remove the signposts in towns/outposts and replace with signs created from the rocks etc that can't be clicked on. Adds realism too.

Randomise spawns. A program can't follow something that can't be followed.

Place new creatures in botspots - Fallen Heroes with Echo+Debilitating shot.

Dummy spirits that take no damage but still attack. Using /kneel will call down the gods to remove the incarnation. A bot would carry on attacking it and die.

Some of those above sound extreme and probably very likely improbable that they might probably not be doable maybe.
There are so many things that CAN be done but it makes me sad that Anet chose a method that harms genuine players who do like killing stuff alone but who must now forfeit that sense of adventure and accomplishment.

Also, don't buy Unidentified golds from people with gibberish names. 99% of them are gold farmers who will recycle that gold into Yen and further hurt this game.
Find yourself a trade partner who you can trust and do regular deals with.

My vote - get rid of loot scaling because i've never seen this many bots before.
Make it harder for the genuine players and they may seek other ways to get wealth.

yes they could do all that or 1 very simple thing. remove loot scalling.

klrk · Jun 20, 2007, 04:25 AM // 04:25

demands for golds increased everytime anet nerf farming stuff
i remember the " old days " when gw golds are cheap and no one wanna buy them
thanks anet for making game golds companies rich
* if you all think only idiots will buy game golds , theres bunch of them outside

Marth Reynolds · Jun 20, 2007, 08:07 AM // 08:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tactical-Dillusions

Ban player to player trading and dropping of items/gold.

So you are suggesting everyone that gives stuff away for free should get banned?

wow that's gonna make the game so much better /SARCASM

The market on eu servers is a fluke..
Prices are frickin low, but that's not even my main concern, My main concern is the current state of the sellers and buyers.
Most buyers will try to lower price for anything you sell (even if it's already very low) just to see if they can get it cheap
and Sellers will drive above the regular price, how are you supposed to trade like that?

I've had some people that just respond to your pricerange and haggle or just keep the price as it is, nothing wrong with that.
But dropping a 80k price down to 40k is not haggling and now it seems almost 75% of anyone who is intrested does that trick.

And i've actually seen buyers saying "no no the prices went up theyre worth 7k now" instead of the 5k i have been buying em for over a month.

Operative 14 · Jun 20, 2007, 08:48 AM // 08:48

One consideration that should be made is that Bot's don't care about time. So what if Drops happen 1/8th less than they used to? That just means they have to farm 8 times longer. When you're a normal person, you get frustrated after 15 minutes (3 minutes if you suffer from ADD

) of farming. When it's a bot, a computer will play for weeks, heck, they can play for years without getting bored, stopping periodically for the master to get his gold. As a way to stop bots and E-bay sales of gold, it's only made it so that E-bay gold is more valuable, so they can charge more for the same amount of gold than before; I.E. it was actually a good thing for botters...

I was approached by a fellow in Kamadan int. 1 this evening while helping a friend start out. I complimented him saying that I was impressed by his mini roller bettle and that he has used an everlasting roller beetle tonic. So he harrased me 3 times with a trade window, and finally I accepted becuase he said he wanted to give me something. Okay, I thought, perhaps he wanted to give me something for complimenting him, perhaps a bettle tonic becuase I had complimented him on that. He filled it from left to right a with a collection of mini pets, all of them rare, including a Mini Rollerbettle, A Panda, a Mini Ataxe, and several others, all of them in the 100K+xx range. Oh, and a roller bettle tonic

(and no, I didn't get any sort of gift from him, nor did i buy or recieve anything)

Perhaps people with these kinds of items should be investigated as well for botting, I would love to see the farming build this guy had if he had amassed all of those itesm out of just playing the game himself, no bots or E-bay buying, especially after loot scaling. Here's an idea, track the ultra rare items, see where they end up... After Loot scaling, that kind of money doesn't just float around.

Angelic Upstart · Jun 20, 2007, 09:41 AM // 09:41

Originally Posted by HawkofStorms
And @ the guy who said the supply of anything hasn't gone up... you clearly haven't been playing the game for that long. A 15^50 anything (as long as it wasn't a crafter skin) used to sell for 100k easily. The Yakslapper used to sell for over 120k. Stuff used to be WAY rarer and more valuable. NF has killed the rarity of items. If you don't believe me, talk to anybody who remembers the "good old days."

QFT the loot scaling sucks badly, for example back in the day if needed materials for whatever, you could for example farm the trolls for half an hour and have a reasonable cache of material drops nothing outrageous, the odd black dye and maybe a couple of golds, but for me this was a good source of basic material wealth to be used for crafting or selling, now however you can clear the cave and out of twenty or so you will get maybe three or four white raven staffs.
Luckily i have had time to perfect all my characters and they dont need anything , but the newer players cannot benefit from the loot scaling as i and many other players did, and that is a shame, and yeah i remember the good old days Brohns Staff 80k.
The pre-nerf Rockmolder 100k+
happy days, i enjoyed the game more back then because if you wanted something 'elite' or super rare you had to go and work for it, now it seems that, everyone must be able to access everything for little or no effort, well ok but for me that takes all achievement out of the game ,after beating all campaigns several times there is not much of a story line to follow , so the only challenge i get now is to solo farm HM and that is rapidly getting boring to be honest.
But i guess that is what happens after playing this game intensely for over nineteen months or so.

Amy Awien · Jun 20, 2007, 09:48 AM // 09:48

I can't even sell a popular green for 80% of what it's worth on Guru

That is because demand is down of these items and supply is up while simultaneously the demand is up and supply down for gold. Hence, the same item trades for less gold now. That's at the core of a free market economy.

And I think that was the goal of the loot-scaling update. It worked.

i remember the " old days " when gw golds are cheap and no one wanna buy them

Back in these old days a Superior Vigor went for >60K and black dye for >15k. No prices have been reduced and that is a good thing, at least for the casual player who's just playing the game.

Pyrea · Jun 20, 2007, 11:04 AM // 11:04

Wouldn't it be easier to catch and ban the bots by looking into eBay more. Maybe ANet can hire e-detectives (lol) to buy gold on eBay and then when those peeps go to hand the gold over, they get nabbed...

Only an idea. Introducing loot scaling though is one of Anet's unlogical updates. They hurt most of the community because of a few people who go around breaking the rules...

Spazzer · Jun 20, 2007, 11:15 AM // 11:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by youngstar

No one will buy an item for what it is worth

You are BAD at economics.

reetkever · Jun 20, 2007, 12:02 PM // 12:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Winterclaw

Yes it is good for the economy and that's why prices are going down on those items. They were exempt so they still drop for soloers on a regular basis to keep the economy from completely stagnating.

Kamadan dis 1.

Being a casual player, I can't buy sh!t in this game. Prices might've dropped an ecto or 2, but they're still 100K and more. This update messed up the game for casual players wanting to play the game normal, and not on 'poor mode'.

The only thing the loot scaling did, was make the poor people more poor, the rich people more rich, and make the game VERY bot-friendly.

They should just remove the loot scaling, or give us fitting rewards. (Come on, a quest taking 2 hours (which is about all the time I can invest in gaming per day) gives 300 gold as reward?

But no, Arenanet will keep ignoring the players who aren't blindly loyal, and will keep nerfing any way of making cash quick into the ground. Why? I think A-Net is VERY afraid of losing people because they are bored. I think it is believed that when one becomes 'rich', he won't be playing the game anymore.

Well know what? Playing the game WITHOUT cash is WAYYYY more boring. Cause what's to do in the game without cash? Nothing.

cataphract · Jun 20, 2007, 12:14 PM // 12:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeVaNeY121

Then I belive its a monthly reset and you can do them again.

I don't think there is a monthly reset. My monk has not opened a single treasure in well over 2 months now but she still can't open any of them. My ranger and warrior have successfully opened treasures for their 3rd time. Go figure.